This third panel discussion on Day 2 of the two-day COP30 event, Delivery on Human Needs in the 21st Century, explores how universities, researchers, and innovation ecosystems can contribute to “even better solutions for an even better world.” Dennis Pamlin frames the discussion around shifting from sector-based, fossil-free upgrades of today’s systems toward human-needs–driven innovation, low-energy-demand pathways, and new societal models. Sascha Nick presents a systems-thinking framework, distinguishing universal human needs from the “satisfiers” that societies can redesign to improve well-being while reducing ecological impact. Gonçalo Pereira outlines an energy-centred perspective, contrasting fossil extraction with renewable, distributed bioenergy and emphasizing job creation and inequality reduction. Jurandir Zullo Junior highlights challenges such as information quality, formal education, denialism, interdisciplinarity, public policy, and communication in research. A statement from Fu Jing stresses interdisciplinary education, societal impact, and global collaboration. The dialogue concludes with reflections on how to mainstream human-needs frameworks and strengthen interdisciplinary, democratic, and sustainable innovation pathways.
Speakers
· Professor Sascha Nick, Business School Lausanne (BSL)
· Professor Gonçalo Brave, University of Campinas (Unicamp)
· Professor Jurandir Zullo Junior, CEPAGRI, Unicamp
· Fu Jing, Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, Guangzhou
Chaired by Dennis Pamlin, Executive Director, FL4ALL & Senior Advisor, RISE.
Dennis Pamlin
· Emphasizes shifting focus from emissions to Brazil’s innovation potential and its role in providing global solutions.
· Critiques “fossil-free typewriter thinking,” urging innovation that asks whether we need certain systems at all, not how to make them fossil-free.
· Highlights the importance of human-needs-driven pathways, avoiding tunnel vision, and learning from past decades of rapid technological change.
· Calls for measuring institutions by their contribution to “flourishing life years,” linking innovation to societal well-being.
Sascha Nick
· Distinguishes universal human needs from the varying “satisfiers” societies can redesign, drawing on Max-Neef and Doyal & Gough.
· Shows how current satisfiers produce declining happiness, inequality, and ecological harm despite economic wealth.
· Presents a systems model connecting needs, satisfiers, provisioning systems, culture, the economy, and planetary cycles.
· Demonstrates spatial redesign concepts such as equalised small private spaces, generous shared spaces, and “8-minute neighborhoods.”
· Advocates democratic processes such as Academic Citizens’ Assemblies, combining algorithmic modelling with participatory decision-making.
Gonçalo Pereira
· Frames everything as energy, comparing solar input, biomass formation, and fossil extraction.
· Argues fossil fuels are non-rechargeable “carbon batteries,” creating climate, environmental, and inequality crises.
· Highlights Brazil’s large areas of low-productivity pasture and semi-arid regions as opportunities for distributed bioenergy and job creation.
· Shows stark contrasts between centralised fossil energy (few jobs, concentrated wealth) and distributed bioenergy (many jobs, local prosperity).
· Points to agave-based biorefineries in semi-arid areas as an example of productive, climate-adapted bioenergy development.
Jurandir Zullo Junior
· Lists major challenges: information, formal education, denialism, interdisciplinarity, integrative public policy, knowledge transfer, social participation, and AI.
· Stresses including communication scientists at the beginning of research projects to improve outreach and impact.
· Notes that many teachers were trained before climate change became widely discussed and may feel unprepared to teach it.
· Warns that denialism exists even within academia and that interdisciplinarity is conceptually praised but practically difficult.
· Emphasizes institutional support and personal researcher interest as essential for successful interdisciplinary centres and large collaborative projects.
Fu Jing
· Describes HKUST-Guangzhou’s mission to break traditional disciplinary barriers and promote co-disciplinary learning.
· Emphasizes research aligned with societal needs, especially sustainability, social equity, and economic development.
· Highlights global collaboration networks, with over 60 operating agreements across regions.
· Outlines university initiatives toward carbon-neutral campuses, green materials research, energy solutions, and AI for sustainability.
· Invites partnerships focused on translating research into practical applications and sharing best practices in carbon-neutral campus development.
(Audio translations and summaries by ChatGPT 5.1)